Anyone know how to put swing on an LFO? Has this been done? I wanna make a funky whompy bassline.

manually automate the time of the lfo using a midi knob. adjust to taste

if you are in ableton, you could boucne the recording to audio, then apply a groove the the audio clip. not sure how well this would work, but work a shot eh? i sometimes do this with arps, because the swing feature on abletons arp is just weak.

in Massive or Reaktor you could use one LFO to control the phase of another LFO. Use a Square Wave to modulate the phase of a sine wave - so that the period of the wobble is 1/16th note, and the period of the phase shift is 1/8th note.

Here's an example. Mod 6 (not pictured) would be a synced square wave with period 1/8th note.

Hope this helps.

I take it back, it actually works better to use a sine, rather than a square, to modulate the LFO phase. That way there's no click when it jumps.

Another way you can do it is by slowing down the tempo a lot and recording the filter tweaks manually.

all these ways work but are way more complex than they need to be..

bounce down a wompy bassline and manually edit/flex the audio so its off beat and has a bit of groove.

^-----------

+1 for this.

How is doing it in the synth more complex? It's just creating an LFO curve that does exactly what you want, with no seams and no bouncing audio.

he has a point there..!

This might just be a dumb assumption.... but for people who are new to techniques like this it'll probably take them more time to figure out how to get the exact results they are after, whereas almost all people on this forum are pretty dam familiar with warping audio, which would take them a few seconds to give a bit of wonk.

Oh... and you have way more control by doing it manually.

I'm reeling in horror just thinking about someone using any of Ableton's algorithms to warp a bass sound for the purposes of getting a different rhythm. To do so, either you're pitching it out of its natural key with repitch mode, or you're creating artifacts by using the complex or beats modes. Or you're chopping it up and destroying its natural transients.

It's almost always better to try to achieve the sound you want at the source, rather than have to edit it afterwards.

Regarding the level of control you have, you should try using the technique I described. It's pretty great for getting human and interesting sounds out of an LFO rather than just the standard switchup every couple beats from 1/16ths to 1/18ths.

The warping issue is definitely a big deal here... I also hate bouncing to audio since I'm prone to changing my mind about sounds/notes really frequently. I never bounce unless I'm turning something into a glitchy loop and need to cut together a bunch of variations of a sound.

^^ bouncing as you write is a great way to keep moving forward and not getting stuck in ruts going back and tweaking little elements of a track.
also its great to save cpu power as you can have WAAAAAAAAAAY more audio tracks running than soft synths.

well, i tried warping a bassline in ableton, and it really didnt sound good, at all. it left some noticeable artifacts and sucked the punch right out of the bass (OBV). doing this with other synths tho can lead to some desirable results... i quite like the sound of textures mode on certain synths.

+1 for moving the filter around by hand. I like the imperfections I get when I do it this way.

-1 for ableton.

i warp stuff in logic all the time and never have the signal degradation that i get in ableton (when using anything but repitch... but if using repitch on a bassline, whats the point!?)

didn't read all of this, but why not control lfo rate(s) by hand? Seems like the best human interactive wobbles and allows you to be as on/off time as you want.

Not sure of your DAW, but you could also record automation of manual rate shifts then quantize or apply swing-template quantization to the automation breakpoints - would allow you to follow your desired swing template(s) and you'd have them saved for later. . .lots of options for this, really.

First, allow me to state that I hope you don't take offense to this post, as it is merely an honest statement of my opinion and experience (and I have been working on music/sound design for a long time), but I am going to contradict your first statement here.

Allow me to clarify a little bit. I was not intending to agree with the statement that it is more complex. I do not, however, understand how such a thing as resampling and warping bass sounds could cause you to reel in horror. On top of this, I do agree that this technique is generally unsuitable for sounds created using synthesizers (whether analog or softsynths), the purpose of this thread was to help someone create funky whomp, not discuss the drawbacks of resampling and warping synths. As such, I suppose that I saw what the poster above me had described in his last sentence, and failed to realize I needed to clarify that this method is more suited to wobbles created using actual audio samples rather than sounds completely governed by predictable equations.

I find that Ableton's ability to freeze and flatten tracks quickly and easily, especially when combined with its warping functions are probably one of its greatest strengths. Most sounds, whether they come from a guitar or a bird's throat have interesting sonic characteristics that can only be heard when the audio is drastically slowed, and I am not simply talking about the creation of artifacts. Though warping a sound as such CAN create terrible sounds and distort/murder what you are going for/a sound's natural transients, it also allows you to grab sound textures that would be otherwise lost.

I use this in close conjunction with a technique similar to what Bonobo demonstrates in his masterclass video, in which he takes a sample, and by carefully using his ears and his eyes lines it up until it is exactly what he's looking for, and then incorporates those elements into the audio track.

I understand that a lot of people prefer to control the sound closer to the source, and that (for example) if your intention is purely to swing the rhythm of a wobble created using a synth, what you say is definitely correct. I would go so far as to say a vast majority of the people using wobbles are creating them with synths because of the predictability and consistency of the sounds it produces. It gives more control, uniformity of sonic textures, and does not destroy natural transients to control the wobble in the manner you suggest.

However, I utilize this method of warping for one main reason. First of all, for me sound design is not the same as synthesis. Though I have enormous respect for and have spent a great amount of time (as I'm sure most people who have been producing music for a while have) the in's, out's, and benefits of synthesizers, my Gibson guitar and some FX pedals have quickly become some of my favorite tools to design sounds. One of my favorite ways to create sounds recently (don't bother looking for this in the stuff I have online now, it's not there. I will try to post an example of what I am talking about this week in the video of me using the tank controller I converted for DJing and production) is by dialing in a patch with my FX pedals including using a suboctave pedal to create a rich, deep bass tone similar to that found in many classic funk/soul songs, like those of Parliment.

I run the resulting audio though a large, old bass amplifier, which includes 4 band analog EQ, as well as a passive/active select, and mid scoop modes, and then through my desktop's soundcard (which accepts 1/4" in and out). I've taken to using the audio recorded in this manner with Ableton's built in sampling instruments to create wobbles and freezing, duplicating, and flattening the results. That's when I employ the technique the very thought of which apparently causes you to reel in horror. Though this can and often does result in audio artifacts, in my experience extremely careful use of this combined with the method of chopping described by Bonobo will minimize this.

Though this is a simplified description of how I work, think it's enough to explain why I'll keep my vote as a (now qualified) +1.

If I am simply completely wrong, please tell me, and please explain why.

I am only on this board because there is both a wealth of knowledge here to help me grow, and I feel I have something to contribute. I try not to post if I'm not actively attempting to help someone or do not need help myself. If I do need help with something (though for me asking for help is one of the hardest things for me to do) I attempt to get in direct communication with someone who I consider an expert on the subject so that I don't risk posting and being chain-misinterpreted/derailed (a forum post is much like a game of telephone you know) or not risk people neglecting the specifics of my post (and obviously I'm guilty of this myself) which is why I end up talking of the members of this forum outside of it more often than on.

Here's to constantly trying to improve.

Cheers,
The Asterite

Thanks for taking the time to engage on your technique. There is no right and wrong here, and I certainly don't take offense to anyone who wants to take me up on a discussion of production theory. Would love to know what pedals you are using.

Regarding what the thread is ostensibly about, the OP question was about how to swing an LFO, and the only way to do it in the synth is to modulate the LFO phase in sync. :shrug: You actually have a very high degree of control doing it this way, and can create some wild sounds by experimenting with different LFO waves on the phase and on the cutoff LFO itself.

Honestly, the way I would usually do this would be to write a MIDI sequence where the notes were swung, and then ride the Attack + release on a filter envelope on the Moog to give it a little motion/breath/humanity.

Hai Guys,

I haven't been following the thread-- I just wanted to chime in and say that DCAM Synth Squad has a swing function on the LFO. May be an easier (if more expensive) way of swangin' yo wobblez.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i_10J7A ... 1&index=30

^ about 6:30 into this.

okay, back to your flame war

Hahaha.

(a)
No flame war. I've just had a lot of people who are skilled in their field take offense when I disagree with them in a public forum. But it's hilarious that you found exactly what the OP was looking for.

I saw the post title and general progression and got excited, because I'm all about funky wobbles. Guess I neglected to realize the OP had a very specific question and got off topic, sorry.

(b)
eprom, I appreciate you taking the time to clarify how you would do this yourself. It's got me thinking of interesting things I could do in conjunction with sidechaining.
(c)
as to what pedals I use:
lately I've been really digging the boss me-50 for this technique. While it would be cool to have a suitcase full of assorted pedals (one of the main advantages being that reordering on them in the signal chain is super-easy) the ME-50 is super versatile. It's got three stomp boxes (on-off switch), each with three or four knobs to dial in individual settings. The first is for distortion fx (I think it models 24 different types of distortion, including a "square" setting which forces incoming audio into a square), the second is for modulation fx (everything from rotary to chorus to a setting where it will automatically harmonize with incoming audio based on the settings you've dialed in), and the third is for delay (also does reverse and stuff like that). On top of this it has global settings which govern compression, final tone modification, and reverb. It's also got a pedal you use much like you would a knob on any other analog device. This can be set to control everything from volume to ring modulation to a wah to a pitch shift.

Though it's not quite as flexible as having a huge array of pedals in front of you, it's also reasonably priced for the huge array of functions it has. On top of this, it's super durable (I've had mine for 2 years and put it through some shit that would probably make its creators cry, and though it's cosmetically no longer in perfect condition, it's components are still great.

Oh, and it also has the ability to save patches to internal memory, and will function as a tuner.

I highly recommend it.

As for the others... can't give away ALL my secret weapons to the general public. Maybe hit me up via AIM or PM or something if your interested.

The Asterite: nice posts.
reamping is a killer way to go (not sure if this is exactly what you're doing... but thats not the point).
you'll get a waaay better sound if instead of running back directly into your soundcard you mic up the amp.
im assuming you're using a direct out from the amp. this (imo) is a kind of shitty way to go as you lose out on the sound of the power amp and the speaker cone/speaker cone distortion.

also, eprom, you said that you reel in horror when people warp basslines etc. i agree that the ableton warping algorithms are shitty (and i NEVER use them), but thats not a reason to dismiss it. Considering how layered sounds are and how much processing each sound is likely to get, it masks a lot of the artifacts in the mix. not hating, just saying.

Also, unless you have good AD/DA the extra conversion step is more likely to hurt the signal..

Tobias:
I definitely understand what you're saying about mic'ing the amp. The sound coming directly from the amp definitely has a different feel to running it through line out. However I find that when applying analog fx to an guitar signal in order to drop it into the bass frequencies, the speaker cone tends to amplify undesirable sonic characteristics in the signal with the result that it sounds muddier. Though when I am attempting to record (for example) using a bass, what you describe is great for capturing what the amp does to the sound.

My AD/DA is handled by my desktop's internal Soundblaster X-Fi audio card. One of the few things I cared enough to save up for and by when I was in high school, the card itself is now dated (has noticable input latency, which means that overdubbing ends up being pretty much impossible). However it handles the conversion beautifully. It has an awesome front panel which enables it to take in 1/4" audio cable, which is fantastic, and captures sounds beautifully with very little (unnoticeable) audio degradation.