eprom wrote:
"tired of the ad hominem attacks (mostly from the ostensibly open minded... sad). skepticism is a useful and necessary tool for navigating reality. when spiritualists understand this, their spirituality will flourish all the more.

spirituality and science are not irreconcilable. only science and pseudoscience are irreconcilable."


being a dickhead is not irreconcilable. where as theorizing, and information sharing is thumbs up.
i still think shiftEQ's earlier post really does sum this shit up.
i choose personally to believe that music is magic.
and that magic is magic.
as it effects me.
sexytime

Maybe try less of the Ad-Hominem yourself then? I'm sure you absolutely felt required to post that cat pic and be a bit more ostensible yourself?



You don't have to agree with anything anybody says, but you also don't have to sit here and force your ideology on us thanks.

Anyways, back to the thread topic itself. I recently found an article about all of us here on this site as musicians.

http://www.omega432.com/music.html


In 1910 J. C. Deagan propositioned the ISO, Deagan was well connected in many elite society circles and was a charter member of the American Federation of Musicians, a member of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, American Physical Society, American Acoustical Society and a member of the Astronomical Society of the Pacific.

The 1900's movement to change the tone of A from 432 Hz to 400 Hz as a result of Nazi spokesman; Joseph Goebbels recommended in 1939 . With his colleagues, they pushed for this movement despite a petition backed by Twenty Thousand musicians. The ISO endorsed this by 1953, and in 1955 the ISO had codified this globally.





Now, why would anyone go to such a great length to do something like that? I don't know personally though perhaps we should ask NBC who still chimes this propaganda tone every time its on T.V.

Or maybe its just all pseudo science

I know nothing on the subject, but I just busted out a synth and tuned it to 432 as the master tune and I must say, I do like the sound better. May just stick with this one for a track or two, if I can ever finish a track
**EDIT** This just made me realize that I have never heard any classical music as the composers did. Time to dig up some MIDI files. I wanna know what Moonlight Sonata was supposed to sound like.....even if Beethoven never did

This is pretty interesting theory. I am very familiar with music theory and have some basic understand of Chakra System/Sacred Centers but I've never heard them related in this way. Who's to say which truths are real...?, regardless, its interesting to learn that all these "note & rhythm relations" that have become intuitive 2nd nature to most musicians, were (perhaps) designed with intricate mathematics, and have been around since the beginning of time reinventing itself thru different civilizations, instruments, and genres.

I definitely have an easier time grasping concepts of Science over "spiritual" ones, mostly because Science has some definite truths that we can see and repeat, whereas Spiritual concepts almost always involve some form of "faith" at some stage of the "spiritual growth".

I think Einstein said it best: "Science without Religion is lame, Religion without Science is blind" -Albert Einstein

@ ENTHEOGEN: Great job man! I'm a big fan! whatever methods you're using its working so keep it up!

A = 440 hz

Science doesn't necessary provide "definite truths," per se, just repeatable results. If a statement is unable to provide repeatable results, it's science-fiction. Most theories of science have been disproven or altered over time, thus one can dismally induce the outcomes of today's popular theories. This same principle is what makes science so useful to begin with, because as our techniques and methods become more effective, our knowledge grows as well.

Music affects the human psyche in a way that is beyond mathematics. Although frequencies can easily be calculated, the internal processing this information is widely misunderstood. Each cell in the human brain has the processing power of a computer, we have 10 billion cells in our brains. Many of these are dedicated to auditory processing (temporal lobe, lateral geniculate nucleus, etc). However, to generalize these sections is an understatement, and the brain is highly interconnected. Our brains are UNIMAGINABLY powerful; to think we can consciously interpret its complexity is arrogance. All in all, our biggest problem understanding how our minds work is our minds. Although I cannot fully understand what happens to me on a neurological level when I listen to music, it is safe to say that music affects my "spirit" in profound, and powerful ways.

Each cell in our body contains about 1.7 volts of energy, now if you multiply that by how many cells are just in one organ we could call that 10^1 . Given that there are over 700 muscles in the body and that there are on average 206 bones, there would be well over 1000 organs in the body if you include all of the internal organs, I'm being nice and using a pretty small number to begin with... ( thank you wikipedia )

Thats a possible 10^1000 volts of electricity, just in a single human body. Don't even get me started on the mathematics of the continent much less the world. How about Extra terrestrial life that we haven't discovered yet?

Alright. Like I said in previous posts A doesn't tune in at 440 Hz if you do a little research for yourself and go get a tuning fork, its 432 Hz. From December 1'st 1955 - Friday September 16th, 2011 ISO Concert A = 440 Hz.

Reference :
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... tern_music )
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A440_(pitch_standard) )

I agree entheogen, you just originally said A was 400 hz, so I was just clarifying... Probably just a typo, wasn't intended to be an argument

weoooooooooooooo =D

HA

Entheogen

Oddly I didnt see any reference in those Wiki articles of 432 being a standard at any given time. Also, tuning forks vary so you could get any number of frequencies from different ones. Where did you learn that 432 should be A?

Sorry to leave this empty for a day, had to head out last time I was around.

The resources are from multiple sources around the world, including but not limited to Doctors, Astrologists, Writers, Scientists, Engineers...

I was also lucky enough to get my hands on a copy of BW gen, a once freeware turned gold account tone generator with envelopes and a scientifically calibrated preset of tones and presets for meditation.

Http://www.bwgen.com

They also explain the frequencies with hypothesis and summary of their findings. Only they have labeled this EEG:

EEG and the brain's state

EEG (Electroencephalography) technology is used to measure brain's electrical vibrations from the surface of the scalp. The resulting EEG pattern will contain frequency elements mainly below 30Hz. The frequencies are categorized into four states as follows:

State Frequency range State of mind
Delta 0.5Hz - 4Hz Deep sleep
Theta 4Hz - 8Hz Drowsiness (also first stage of sleep)
Alpha 8Hz - 14Hz Relaxed but alert
Beta 14Hz - 30Hz Highly alert and focused

( http://www.bwgen.com/theory.htm ) _ First paragraph.

Im not so sure about a lot of what has been posted here, but Musicophelia by Oliver Sacks http://www.amazon.com/Musicophilia-Tale ... 824&sr=1-1 is a very good read. It makes very few conjectures and is presented scientifically using a number of case studies, it changed my perception of music and is what inspired me to study psychology. I'm sure you would all like it, and if you dont have the patience then acknowledge that fact.

I'll certainly purchase this book for good reading material, but I also have a book which I suggest you could learn a bit from.

"This is Your Brain On Music; The Science of a Human Obsession." Daniel J Levitin .

Of which Oliver Sacks, MD states " Endlessly Stimulating "

'brain on music' is where I learned glitch hop's penultimate reason for existence-to bang endless seas of groupies

I had heard of that book but ive never checked it out, it looks interesting though. I think ill buy it.

http://youtu.be/cy2Dg-ncWoY

I thought I'd share this for you "science" related people. Now, not only has a PHD PROVEN that these healing frequencies exist, by studying an ancient Chapel has been built around the "science" of such a phenomenon, that contains cryptic messages for those willing enough to look.


Chaldni plates are capable of making resonances visible or giving sound "shape". Why would there be a Chapel built around the acoustics of ancient knowledge which predates any kind of information we have today unlocked from the past if this wasn't a practice of a sound mind?

The Sinclairs gave Templars Knights refuge. What did the Templars take back from digging under Solomans Temple? Ancient knowledge where geometric patterns coupled with music could change the vibrational frequency of an area allowing the thinning of the veil that separates this world from the next. But that's crazy right? I mean really who today believes in that stuff. Just pay your taxes and shut up.

great thread, i jus read the whole fekkin thing...not taking sides, both have a bit of the truth imo..

science/technique without some sense of the spiritual/how the mid/body reacts, with result in flat, uninteresting music....you hear so much stuff these days thats technically great of correct thats just doesnt make you FEEL anything...

levitan's books are a must read for any musician, The World in 6 Songs is his latest, and its awesome...

very interestin gpodcast on musical language and how we feel what we hear...

http://www.radiolab.org/2007/sep/24/

etheogen, do you mind if i post your OP in another forum? full credit of course...

No, not at all, please use it as it is, or however you wish, that is the purpose of this thread.

I love comments like this. You made my day, I never noticed this until just reading through after further editing.



But yeah I would suppose the music theory of today wouldn’t, at all, been designed by previous generations and tweaked, or altered to suit todays culture. Mhm

I suppose all of the ideas like the Piano; remember your music theory history?
Never would have made it if by means of being told everything from someone who is “in the know” more than extracting meanings for yourself, like Bartolomeo Cristofori .

Ahh, you owe someone who was a “quack” of his time everything! Especially to the music you call "your own" today.

But the Piano CAN’T BE DONE, its ABSURD...

I like it HOT

I think this deserves a sticky to help people new to producing and music production, I definitely learnt something new!

Bump for this thread in 2012. I do wonder why people have to sink to personal attacks, etc, when their worldview is threatened. Still no proof of chakras that I am aware of!

I am reminded of the British futurist Arthur C. Clarke:

1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right.
When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.

2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Hey EPROM, Skrillex stole your AV logo thingy. But you're famous, too, right? I kid, I kid. Let's be gentleman here.

NOTICE

The nature of this thread has been altered to reflect more efficiently the ideas and information dispersed without it.

I'd like to have a bit of time to get out of a busy schedule to post a few of my posts onto the initial thread as I had planned.

The original post name has also been altered.

this thread is win sauce!