This is a question for all the DJs using Ableton Live to spin their tracks:

How do you level your tracks?

Using MP3gain? Manually using an RMS meter? You just plain don't & fix it all in the mix?
Would like to hear your input!

Cheers

I do it by ear. line up two tracks, set one to "A" crossfader output and one to "B", then make sure abletons crossfader is centered and both track volumes are @ zero. Then you listen and make sure both tracks can be heard clearly/mix sounds good. With recent properly mastered tracks I find I pull down between nothing and -4db a lot. On a few tracks I've pushed them up but almost never over 1 dB.

If you use the same reference track every time it makes it a bit easier I think.

And how do you prevent clipping on the master?

Limiter on the master. Try my best not to have it compressing more than 2db, because in my experience that is where it starts getting noticeable.

Wouldn't it be better to turn down all separate channels instead of limiting the master? That way nothing gets compressed?

Either way is ok in my opinion. The limiter is more for safety so I don't overload than for anything else. You can drop your tracks as far as you want really. Compress as much as you like or don't. I'm just telling you this is my style which I happen to like after doing a handful of live shows and my weekly dj show on glitch.fm

We could talk all day about what would be "better" as far as limiting and compressors but i've seen guys obviously compress tracks to hell and still keep a dance floor moving, and use no compression at all mixing at relatively low levels and do the same. It's all about how you work with it, what you put over it, what type of mixing you're doing. I prefer things to be loud / hot what have you and play with levels a good amount live so I will never drop the limiter on my master.

really though just do it. practice. like Navi says to Link "Hey!!! Listen!!!!"

First thing I do when I bring new tracks in is set their clip volume.. usually anywhere from -8dB to -4dB - but sometimes there are quiet tracks or pre-masters that need to be boosted by a few dB but that's rare.

And how do you set these levels? By comparing them to a reference track or by using a metering plug-in?

Actually try to comparing them to my originals that I might drop in the set, but it's usually vise versa..

Not everyone is going to be using this as a benchmark, but if I can get my unmastered stems to sound loud and punchy compared to professionally mastered tracks then that's my goal.

but besides that, I try to get the songs to peak somewhere around -7dB to -4dB so that there is enough headroom to mix two tracks, add effects, etc, etc..

put a utility on each channel at -15 to -20 and turn it up all the way and abra cadabra no clipping... use a limiter on your effects rack (i use my effects on master)

I tune all tracks so that they don't go above 0 on the individual channel. I will also drop my master to -1 just in case one sound just bumps out a little higher on the drop. Most of it is done by eye though to check every level. Most of all though, practice. Lots and lots of practice.

That utility plug-in is a good idea!

My crossfader (to A/B) also automates the levels of both my Mixing tracks ever so slightly. I find it doesn't have enough punch when the crossfader goes over 50% either way.

Seems like none of ableton's crossfader modes are exactly what I was looking for.. Did you use a utility plug to do this or do you just map that to the volume faders themselves?

I do it visually so I see no red. Typically, I'll go through my set folder and ensure it all sounds good beforehand. Also keep a limiter over my A and B decks, but I rawk an Allen and Heath mixer which takes care of about everything. The sound guy helps too.

mt

What are you talking about? Part of DJing is mixing (and properly gaining) tracks during a set...

(If I were to prepare that aspect of it as well... I would have nothing to do in the dj booth except for drinkin beer and clicking play every 4 minutes )

RMS meter and A/B with ears.... running stuff into a limiter is a big "no" in my book because tracks are already limited/compressed/EQ'd in the master phase, and don't need the distortion of limiting (esp. ableton's limter). i like to salvage as many dynamics as possible.

+1 for the sound guy, too

Thats if there's a sound guy, and IF he has the ears for it... but when they're there... Ah huh

This is how I do it too. I adjust clip gain so the track peaks around -10db, which is a bit low but leaves me plenty of headroom. I used to tune it really precisely but now I do a lot of the adjustments during the set like Inofaith because I rarely got it right anyway.

What I think a lot of people might be missing is that if you set your tracks so they never go above 0 and then drop a track while another is playing, unless you're REALLY careful with volume and EQing, you will almost surely clip the master. You'll be running into your limiter (if you use one) nearly every time you mix between tunes. If you leave some headroom on each channel that won't happen. My opinion is that the limiter should be catching peaks ONLY--it's a backup measure in case you do a very resonant filter sweep or accidentally play something way too loud. You have to remember that the limiter is better at protecting equipment than it is at protecting ears... try running a mastered track into a limiter and hitting 5db of gain reduction and you'll see what I mean. It still sounds (somewhat) louder. So if you're catching peaks, you're protecting your interface, then the inputs on whatever mixer you're in, and then the sound system from exceeding their physical clipping limits. People's ears will still notice.

That said, in a live situation it probably doesn't matter that much because people are dancing, they're drunk, there's a system that has its own quirks, so no one notices an extra 2db of limiting on a mastered tune. Might be a different situation if you're recording a mix that you're giving out in 320 and you want it to sound pristine.

Doesn't this create loads of extra hours of preparation? And cost you valuable time...

Now you would have to put a track in iTunes and make sure all the metadata is right, then go into a program to level it for your sets and render it out, and then you'd have to warp it in Ableton.

If I would level tracks, I'd just reduce everything down -12dB or 9dB in the clips right inside ableton, and thus have enough room to upp the softer ones, and down the harder ones.

But yeah, just playing a track an simply turning the gain knob is way easier imo... they're mastered (I hope) anyway, so there should be no need to EQ stuff, maybe a few dB's diff in perceived loudness.

Is this directed at me? I do just what you said, lower the clip gain slider to -12 and then when I mix I have a gain adjustment fader that's mapped to a Utility.

Confused by what you're saying about iTunes and metadata?

No I meant it more in general.

Like I get the impression that people here are editing their audio files applying some extra dB's, limiting, ore reducing volumes and then rendering tracks out so they all match volume.

The method I tried to describe was actually just setting various levels in just the clips in ableton. (but have a low value like -9 as a starting point so you can manoeuvre up as well.

What I do when I mix in ableton tho is: I have a mixer FX rack I built. that reduces the volume of the channel to begin with, because all the 3 EQ's turned up can add volume, and also a Gain can add volume. This all can be maxed out with the levels always staying well under 0.
I've never set a gain level on a piece of music, because there's just too much music to play and prepare for ableton that it would take me ages to re-level my entire library... and since i have a traditional little gain knob and 3 eq bands, there is no need for it anyway.


It's funny because serato has an autogain feature XD scans tracks for relative loudness, and adjusts the level a bit so they all play at the same.

I set my channels that will be playing my tracks to -6db and -3db on the master. this insures that you will never redline internally which causes distortion. may seem a little low but gives you tons of headroom to pump on the actual mixer. set your warp mode to repitch in order to achieve the highest quality audio while performing but the catch is that you have to be playing at the original tempo of the track without changing the pitch. when changing tempos i usually manually switch back to complex pro from repitch. always have set to repitch when playing the bassy part of the track because it will hit a lot harder. you will hear the difference on a large sound system. and only play flacs or wavs. mp3s are garbage.....

Vary informative! thanks chrisB.